The Autococker Thread..Need Help?

[PsybusterX]

Here's all the links that you need to learn how autocockers work and trouble shooting autocockers. ÂÂ*Being a dummy like me it took me a while to learn how to figure out how this gun works, but with these links you should be able to figure out this gun like the back of your hand (given that you ever look at the back of your hand) within a hour or 2.

Owner Groups:

http://www.air-powered.com
AIR Powered is easily the largest owners group, you can find anything here. ÂÂ*From experiencing on new mods from mechnical and electro cockers to just chatting with fellow cocker owners. ÂÂ*My personal experience is that this is the best forum to discuss your matters on. ÂÂ*This place will tell you anything you need to know or need to know.

http://www.pbnation.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=237
It's PBNation for goodness sakes. ÂÂ*Has info on mechincal and electro cockers you need to know. ÂÂ*I still prefer AIR Powered better, but this still a great place to check out.

http://thecog.bizland.com
An old school owner's forum. ÂÂ*More known for it's tech info than actual forum.

Trouble shooting:

http://www.moodypaintball.com/pages/tech/
Explains all possible mechnical cocker problems and how to solve it, very thorough and helpful. ÂÂ*If you have a problem with you cocker this is definately the guy to talk to.
Will teach you how to sweetspot your regulator for maximum effiency! Good Game... :/

http://www.air-powered.com/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=2481&s=82249273ae37e7245b50 664b9b2a3b11
The tools on the go, better to be safe than sorry. ÂÂ*Would also be good to carry a valve remover tool...just in that rare case if something goes wrong.

The EBlade and ANS RaceFrame

http://www.air-powered.com/index.php?act=ST&f=16&t=3654&s=6ec72de9660bdd8a6c7 5ecaae92dfb98
Got a question for Eclipse? Here's where to do it.

http://www.air-powered.com/index.php?act=ST&f=16&t=3471&s=6ec72de9660bdd8a6c7 5ecaae92dfb98
A quick guide on timing for the Raceframe, 9v Raceframe, ANS GX-E Frame.

http://www.air-powered.com/index.php?act=ST&f=16&t=3633&s=6ec72de9660bdd8a6c7 5ecaae92dfb98
How to tune in suction timing on Raceframes.

Upgrades:

http://www.air-powered.com/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=1031&s=82249273ae37e7245b50 664b9b2a3b11
This thread will give you the upgrades people have used and recommend, although you might have to look toward the end to see the new parts being released.

http://www.moodypaintball.com/pages/tech/upgrade.htm
This page will give you a more precise view on what to upgrade, read this before you start buying parts if you are new to the cocker.

The Infamous Art of Timing:

http://www.moodypaintball.com/pages/tech/timing.htm
Very thorough again on the explaination of how to time. ÂÂ*A little wordy, but again very helpful.

http://thecog.bizland.com/timing.html
Another good link, explained a littler easier for dummies like me.

Helpful diagrams:

http://thecog.bizland.com/diagram.html
Click on the part and it will briefly explain what it does.

http://www.moodypaintball.com/pages/tech/diagram.htm
Has diagrams of all the parts on the autococker from the manual. pictures of how the autococker works, the breakdown of the inline wgp regulator, and other helpful pics.

Other Notables:

3 Way Hosing:

Thanks to Nathan Moody...

The middle barb always leads to the LP reg.

Three way with two o-rings, and a sliding grip frame:
Front of the ram to the rear of the three way
Rear of the ram to the front of the three way

Three way with two o-rings, and a hinge grip frame:
Front of the ram to the front of the three way
Rear of the ram to the rear of the three way

Three way with three o-rings, and a sliding grip frame:
Front of the ram to the front of the three way
Rear of the ram to the rear of the three way

Three way with three o-rings, and a Hinge grip frame:
Front of the ram to the rear of the three way
Rear of the ram to the front of the three way

---

If you still have trouble with autocockers feel free to drop a private message and I will try to get back to you ASAP.

PS: Please excuse any grammar errors lol. :)

[ironpanther]

dude psy I know I suggested a list of owners groups but this is above an beyond. Great job dude thanks. This will be stickied.

PS if you have a problem with an autococker post your problem in this thread and PM it to myself or psy. If we can't help you then I will let palmer's guys post their suggestions on this thread seeing as glen is the designer of the original "autococking" system. ANY other suggestions that get posted on this thread will be deleted. When you get your problem please follow up with a brief description of what was wrong and what was done to solve it that worked.

[PsybusterX]

ARGH If you must....Here's a list of upgrades I recommend (I as in you may have different opinions, but I will list the ones with the best performance, hopefully I can also do cost effective)

Trigger Frame:
Slide Frames

It doesn't matter what slide frame you have, all that matters is that you have a trigger stop (IE: Palmers Trigger Shoe w/ Stop), roller sear, and a good springs in there. ÂÂ*A cut down and stretched bic pen spring will do great. ÂÂ*For those who are wondering, roller sear and Hinge Frames are a WASTE of money, roller sears will do nothing for hinges.

Hinge Frames

Take your choice:
KAPP Reflex
Eclipse Blade
Jackal 90*
CCM 86*

If anyone has used the custom and rare CCM IR3 Autococker Space Frames, PLEASE give me a call or something about them. ÂÂ*I wanna know how well they work, I believe only 10 or so are out there.

Pneumatics:

Remember, pneumatics judge how much pressure it will take to **** it.

3 Way:
Shocktech Bomb 3way
CT 3way
Palmers Quickswitch
Besales Hollowpoint

If not these, keep the stock

LPR:
Palmers Rock LPR [If using CO2 only get full size, HPA Full size or Micro Rock]
AKA Soda Can LPR
Shocktech FGP LPR

SCM is the king of LPRs now

Ram:
KISS - Keep It Stock Sonny (Yep you heard me, if you are shooting a mechnical cocker keep the brass clippard ram, it's good up to 16bps, even more so with QEVs otherwise...)
In this order:
MPP SMC Ram (Largest ram shaft for higher volume of air passage)
Besales Magnum 44/Nexus Ram
Freeflow SMC Ram
Quickswitch Ram

Quick Exhause Valves (QEV) are a nice add on and will lower your pressure to the ram

Bolt:
Any true open face bolt, none of that venturi or 8 hole mod crap

Internals:

Valve:
Keep it Stock or
AKA Valve, no ands or buts with the others, they are just slightly modified stock valves

Hammer:
Any aftermarket hammer will do. ÂÂ*Just no Freeflow Tungsten hammer please. ÂÂ*Yes it's the heavy hammer out in the market, but at the same time you have to pay the price of it being the most destructive. ÂÂ*Tungsten isn't a good material against aluminum, so give it a few years before you start to see wear inside your body

Spring Kits:
MADMANN
Free Flow
AKA

Regulator:
Stablizer
Stock WGP Inline w/ AKA Adjuster Cap
CP Reg

Ball Detents:
Mostly a cosmetic upgrade, but delrin and rebuilding ball detents should be the way to go, delrin will stop it from wearing the bolt out if it's delrin. ÂÂ*Rebuildable is nice incase you have problems with your current ball detent.

Cosmetics:

Milling - You get my drift...Just do one favor..DO NOT get the FBM Spanky/Cobra Bodies. ÂÂ*Lots and lots of the bodies are malfunctioned and will result in lots of problems.

Pump arms / Cocking rods - take your pick, they can come in all sorts of pretty colors

Actuating rod - Any but KAPP (sorry guys, I love ya, but them actuating rods of yours are funky), KAPP actuating rods aren't the standard 6-32, when I measured mine it was something funky like 6-54. ÂÂ*So yeah, any will do...maybe I just got a weird KAPP rod.

IVG - Stock is good, but if you don't like brass like me get a S/S one. ÂÂ*Most Internal Kits will come with an IVG (Score!)

Feednecks - If you got a 2K3 or Angel threaded Feed tube you can get all sorts of pretty milled feedtubes that do nothing. ÂÂ*Hi rise, low rise, gate feed, whatever it's your choice, stock is good, them wgp twisters are good. ÂÂ*They are all good :)

Rock Knobs - Tourney Illegal, but the knob makes your rock look stylin, you can get the shocktech rock knob which looks pretty, Palmers got them. ÂÂ*Just makes life easier when you need to adjust your lpr.

Barrels:

I'm leaving this up to you


Am I missing anything else?

It's 3:02am, I can't think straight...

[GammaKaylan]

What about putting a drop forward on a 03 WGP Vert Cocker?

Is all I need to do is buy a drop forward and put it on or do I have to buy a new bottomline for it?

[PsybusterX]

drop forward is personal preference.

depending on what drop you buy, you may also need a duckbill or on/off ASA. Any standard drop should work with all cocker frames.

[GammaKaylan]

I just got a Custom Products pro-series micro drop and to get it so that I can screw the drop into the trigger frame, the hose on the bottomline of my cocker has to be bent into a little circle. Am I doing it wrong or is it ok to bend the hose.

[PsybusterX]

into a little circle? I think it should be fine as long as the macroline is connected into the elbows fully, i never experienced problems with macroline breaking on me. if you are really paranoid about it, get a s/s line

[ironpanther]

You can also trim it if it is macro line so you don't have to flex it. If it is steel braided line it will be fine as long as you don't actually cause it to pinch.

[GammaKaylan]

ok, so I couldn't curl the steel braided line into a circle because the cup where i screw in the tank wouldn't move into the right place so I could screw the cup into the micro drop. So, I unscrewed the bottomline from the cup a tiny bit so that the hose would be coming out of the cup at a different angle. Will it leak because the hose is not screwed into the cup all the way?

[mxdude914]

my friends all telling me toget a mag over a cocker. He says they are constantly broken and they are the hardest gun to work on but i would rather get a cocker what should i get.

[PsybusterX]

black: if your hose is in all the way, its not going to pop out. If it's too long, do what ironpanther said and to trim it.

mx: obviously your friend doesn't know a single thing about autocockers. They've gotten a notorious history from people who don't know how to work on the gun, normally they see something wrong and rather than seeing what's the problem they give up and call the gun trash (might i add all guns have their problems).

for more details on the gun i would take a look at moodypaintball.com

[ironpanther]

psy I think he unscrewed the fitting in the ASA. If you did that then either make sure you put some teflon or loctite on the threads or it might leak around the threads.

[GammaKaylan]

Yeah thats it except I only turned the threads like 90 degrees to make it a little bit looser.

[RYAN-from-SCHWINN]

another great cocker site is
www.paintballravi.com

[sdpaintballer]

The velocity adjuster lug keeps slipping out. Like I would chrono at like 290 when I start playing the velocity slowly decreases. After the game when I go to the chrono it usually at around 190 - 200

[PsybusterX]

put a new oring in there, a regular co2 oring should work, it'll be a tight fit at first, but it will break down

[bikebum]

Good links. I am having a problem with my WGP orracle autococker. It is brand new and I have only shot a few hoppers full of paint in the yard. Every once in a while while I am shooting a ball will not come out, then the next shot will shoot two. Then sometimes this will happen but wont shoot two times then the third time it will shoot three balls, all underpowered, probably because the fact that three balls are shooting with the same amount of air. Then sometimes between shots while just standing and lowering the barrel towards the ground while walking a paintball will roll out. I have no clue what is causing these problems. I have been going through all the links posted, but have not found anything yet. Please help me if you can. Thanks for the help...

[tonupboy]

a few things to go over

roll out is predominatly caused by the paint being to small,
match your paint to your barrel.

next sevral things could be causing your back up problem

make sure your cocking rod is not loosening up during firing
and that it is adjusted propperly (see vantrepes or endless paintball etc. for timing tutorials)

next you must make sure your LPR is also adjusted propperly.

your inline aswell and that your fittings are set up right,ie: if your macro or steel elbows are to tight or leaking.


dead or weak batterys in your hopper,or useing a non motorized hopper

and paint that is swollen or in bad shape (egg's etc.)

[ironpanther]

or you could just do the logical thing and add delay between the firing and cocking. If you have the stock tickler 3 way use a allen wrench to rotate the tickler counterclockwise about a third to a quarter of a turn. Keep track of your start point but that should add enough delay to stop that from happening. And tonup boy is right about the rollout being caused by small bore paint. If you want a more detailed explanation about what you are doing when you adjust the three way read som of the older autococker threads on this forum. I have explained whats going on a few times here.

[PsybusterX]

ooh i'm late on posting :/

you could be short stroking as well.

2 types of short stroking, one where the bolt can chop the ball because you are starving the ram.
the other is when you **** the gun and not fire, causing double and in extreme cases triple feeding.

[ssickness]

outkast ram is it just a chrome verson for stock?

[ironpanther]

it is a STO ram.

[GammaKaylan]

Ok, so I used my cocker for the first time yesterday and I came home and I cleaned it.

I wiped down the body with the rubbing alcohol-water mix, removed the bolt, squeegee'd the place where the bolt goes, cleaned the bolt and reoiled the bolt.

any other things i should do?

[ventturei25]

rubbing alchol man that stuff can screw up a cocker, this is not a spyder, use only water and no other mix. of couse that might just be me, i wont stand for anyone trying to use somehting on a gun that isnt meant for it.

other than that your fine, never do more thanis necciasary, ause when you do you start to have problems, just like those people who like to take apart the matrixes for fun (NO, im not talking about me, or am i,lol)

[PsybusterX]

rubbing alcohol shouldn't hurt, i used rubbing alcohol to clean my gun of fingerprints and grease marks and never noticed any performance loss.

the only thing that you should do is put a drop or 2 at the most in your asa everytime you go out to play. I also like to lube my 3 way real good by putting 2 drops in the front hole of the 3way and just keep pulling the trigger when the gun isn't aired.

[ssickness]

2k3 cocker body with both blocks and hinge for a 100. Is it worth it?

[mental_inhalation]

aright, i got the tool, but how the hell do you remove the cocker valve??(im puttin helacoils in =/) an it looks like theres a little spacer thingy right underneath the first(from the asa) trigger screw how do i get that out too?

[PsybusterX]

sick: if you are building a cocker then yes..

mental: if you want to remove the valve, remove all your internals, remove the valve retaining screw, use the valve tool give it a twist and gently tap the body on one end and the valve should pop out.

are you talking about removing the asa? you use a 12 pt socket wrench to do that. otherwise i'm not quite too sure what you are talking about

[rapter800]

Hey I've got a 2003 dye reflex cocker. It shoots really nice except for this one thing. Whenever I let go of the trigger to slowly, it starts blowing air out of the barrel. It stops if I fire a quick shot. Any Ideas? LMK steve

[mental_inhalation]

are u sure its out of ur barrel? check the 3-way and see if it needs adjustment, otherwise u might need to check ur pressure or ur o-rings on the internals

[PsybusterX]

leaking out of the barrel? try retiming if not check the orings in your valve or see if your valve spring is the correct weight

[punkerx1]

heres one for you. it stumped everyone at airpowered, so lets see if you have any ideas..

i had a hinge frame, swapped that for a slider. ive gone from hinge to slider before, and am not a cocker noob, so i can assure you i did everything needed like switching the ram hoses etc.(stock 3way). okay, when i gas up and pull the trigger everything seems to work fine exept it wont recock, it will fire fine but the bolt stays back and you have to push the trigger forward to get the backblock to resetr..ive turned the lpr down as far as it can go to properly work and it still wont recock. ive tried my stock slider on it also, and tried using a harder main spring, turning up/down the velocity, giving/taking length from the pump armm loosening/tightening the cocking rod, timing..nothing seems to get it recocking. any ideas? could it be the 3way, cuz i have a bomb sitting here, but i need some hose for it..

[ironpanther]

check to make sure your slide frame still has a return spring in it. not the spring under the sear but the spring that pushes the trigger plate back. If you have to physically push the trigger forward to get the back block to reset then it is most likely that you don't have a return spring behind your trigger plate or it is too soft. also check to see that you are not clamping the trigger plate against the body by backing the two little set screws in the slide frame out a tiny bit. finally readjust your timing so that the sear and three way actuate farther back in your trigger pull so that you have a little over travel when the three way is returning to assure it totally switches. If none of that fixes it I am stumped.

[punkerx1]

thanks for the reply. there was a return spring in both frames, and i backed out the set screws. i'll have to try the last suggestion next time i get an air fill.

[ssickness]

where do u get aka adjuster cap?

[ironpanther]

try contacting one of the aka dealers listed on their website. www.akalmp.com

[pntblltilim60]

ok im not a cockernewb nor am i a tech or anythign but i know my basics to time it and what not ill play for a lil while and fire about 30 to 50 shots and it will start to drop off then will just barely come out then not even recock itself and when i unscrew the air tank and screw it back in it does the whole prscess over again....im baffled is this a timing problem or what any suggestions would be great...thanks

[ssickness]

Where is a good but cheap place to mill and chrome/ano?

[ironpanther]

pntball- this sounds like a ASA problem. It sounds like when you screw your tank in all the way you are actually restricting the pin valve so that after awhile it just doesn't open. Try a different tank or a different ASA and then let us know if that solved the problem.

Sickness- psy will know the sac area machine shops better than me but be forwarned cheap milling is just that. CHEAP Same thing goes for annodizing.

[PsybusterX]

actually i don't know about the machine shops in this area, i send my stuff to PA.

[gogged_gurl]

ok im not a cockernewb nor am i a tech or anythign but i know my basics to time it and what not ill play for a lil while and fire about 30 to 50 shots and it will start to drop off then will just barely come out then not even recock itself and when i unscrew the air tank and screw it back in it does the whole prscess over again....im baffled is this a timing problem or what any suggestions would be great...thanks


in addition to a bent or over turned tank/ASA situation there are a few things for anyone having drop off/shoot down issues
should look into

your connections be it steel braided or macro, fittings can be over tightend and macro can be crammed to far in,or leaking at a rate you cannot hear

the macro, steel, and front end line can develop small cracks and pin holes and maybe leaking just enough for a pressure loss,i had serious issues with someones cocker before were we tried hours to track down the problem and it ended up being a pinhole in some front end line..uber frustrating


also on a older,or well used marker after time the seals will degrade,3-way,ram,LPR,etc. leaving you with very bizzare
cocker behavior

[capita686]

psy can u help me, or any one??????


1) a 2003 wgp w/ a cp barrel, palmers reg, a WGP Vert reg (the ones on the outkast, and knightkast), a new 3way, and some others (90's marcro ect.) for like $400.00

or

2) a wgp 2003 vert "E-Bladed '03 WGP Autococker" which already includes: Maddmann Rocket Valve, Kapp Cocking Rod, Orracle Tickler, STO Ram, AIM Front Block, CP Mini-Drop Forward, and the E-Blade frame in Black...

The toolbox i told you i would include has: an extra beavertail, an extra pull pin, a black magic cocking rod, otp barrel inserts, and extra o-rings..



pm me back ANY ONE i need to know which one fast!!!!!!! pm me, cuz i forget, and don't check threds

[PsybusterX]

2, eblades new alone are $300+, so basically you buy an eblade and buy an autococker for $125

[capita686]

u know thats what i said, but #1's friend is buying my gun, and thats paying for like 1/2 of it, and he said that if i donnot buy his he won't sell my gun to his friend >:( lol
pm me back

thanks Phsy ur the man!!!!!!!

[PsybusterX]

http://www.accesswave.ca/~devon/timingmx/TIMINGMXv11.html

i found this for anyone who is having trouble timing their cocker.

it's a neat little simulation game where you need to time this cocker. ÂÂ*I got suction timing, can you? :)

<psy your slackin but I made it all better - Iron>

[ironpanther]

ok then now that I can suction time a virtual cocker I geuss I can call myself a WGP tech eh psy? That was kinda funny and would be a good walk through for those of you wanting to learn.

[PsybusterX]

haha. if you know how to time, you are an official unofficial WGP tech.

[BigSexy]

i noticed Eclipse make an internal nexus kit for a cocker. it replaces valves, Ram, bolt, springs, ect. basically all internals from a Eclipse Nexus Cocker and it runs $175. is this a good buy to make a mech cocker cycle better and more efficient? or would a combination of other parts work better?

[ironpanther]

the nexus kit is designed to best perform with an eblade. Though it will help out just abotu any cocker. For the price though you can probably find all the parts of different brands for cheaper and get the same or better performance.

[PsybusterX]

if you want to save a pretty penny and willing to wait for parts, i would definately go with getting individual parts. Nexus is a nice kit, very nice, but you can get your cocker performing better if you get your parts seperate.

My best success in parts was with:

MPP Ram w/ QEVS
Jackal Hi Speed Hammer
AKA/Nelson/Maddman Springs
AKA Tornado Valve (Turtle Valve gets good efficency if you can get the damn thing to work right)

[BigSexy]

thanks psy , thats the kinda answer i was looking for. i normally order my stuff from actionvillage.com but they dont have most the stuff. im about an hour south of SAC. where would i find all those parts? if its all at one place in sac i can make it a day trip. oh and about a bolt, ive been a fan of delrin cuz i hate lubing bolts and watching them scratch your body, is there a particular one thats good for cockers?

[PsybusterX]

for the parts just look online or call up stores.

i like any open face delrin bolt, just one big fat hole for air to come out of. :)

[ironpanther]

okay then if you want to know my personal prefference on kits here be it. I have run this internal and pnuematics combo since last march and have had an eblade cycling the crap out of it since september without troubles like shifting lugs or what not.

oh yeah and the bolt your wondering abotu would be a aka lightning bolt. Available in both black delrin and nickle plated aluminum.

dye lpr, dye ram with old school pnuemadine qevs(hahaha I had qevs before they were cool) AKA pump arm( the design is a straight rod with the threaded tube actually silver soldered or welded ot it so that there isn't any really side ways torque aplied to the arm(wears the ram and bolt over time)) aka delrin lightning bolt, aka/nelson blue springs, aka tornado valve, aka mighty max volumizer, dye stainless ivg and hammer with nylock set screws holding the lug where its supposed to be. If you ever see me at a field come over and I will be happy to let you shoot my cocker.

[PsybusterX]

hehe iron, my cocker is better than yours :P better as i got duped into spending more, because i like to spend money on guns and never shoot them :(

BTW: PsyXCocker v2.0 will come out, and body kits will be for sale :P

My cocker consists of:

Custom Only X Body v1.0
Custom X Delrin Bolt
Custom X Back Block
Worrblade w/ Samurai Trigger ( A must if you want to rip )
CP Reg
CCM Feedneck
PPS Micro Rock LPR
MPP Ram w/ MPP Qevs
WGP 03 BM Front Block w/ ASA
CCM Hammer
Freeflow Valve
Empire Barrel Kit or Stiffi

[BigSexy]

ok i picked up a CCM J2 body, and a 03 cocker w/ a nice front end and bolt. i plan on getting a new valve and springs. the problem i have is stripping the 03 and getting the parts along w/ my store bought parts into the CCM body. i know it is easier to give it to a shop and have them install. but out of respect for the game i wish to attempt to make the gun on my own and have it shoot well. is there any site w/ pics that show a cocker as if the body was see thru so i can know how to put humpty dumpty back together again?

[ironpanther]

Actually if you want to see something rather amazing and totally helpfull go to www.the-whiteboard.com and follow the links back to doc nickle's home page. Look through his gallery till you find the xray image of his autococker. It is really cool and totally help full if you want to see how a whole cocker looks on the inside.

[p8ballfreek]

Hey Psy, I was curious if you have had any experience with the Nexus .44. I'm curious if the MPP Ram w/QEV's or the Nexus .44 w/QEV's will perform better.

[PsybusterX]

mag 44 is a great ram, with QEVs it makes it even better.

both rams are excellent, can't go wrong with either. I like the MPP because it's $20 less and the only difference is about 1-3 psi under your lpr.

[lic2q]

ball dedent. what is its function? i have heard its cosmetic and i have heard it holds the ball to prevent rollout. which is the fact?

[PsybusterX]

ball detents prevent a 2nd ball from being loaded in (double feeding). Stock is just fine, aftermarket can be just for cosmetics.

[BigSexy]

your thoughts on delrin ball detent? is that taking comsetics and turning it into a better function and less wear add-on? ( kapp detent w/ delrin ball as opposed to metal )....
also for internals, spring kit, hammer kit, and valve kit, is that a full set or missing any parts?

[p8ballfreek]

Don't forget the valve jam nut and retaining screw. You'll need to use a valve tool to get the retaining screw out though. But for the lower tube, I think you got it all. Oh, don't forget the IVG.

[ironpanther]

IVG is in any good hammer kit, same with jam nut and vale seat nut. The delrin ball is easier and much cheaper to manufacture and ir easily replaced. The metal oneswill last longer but may cause some wear. It is really prefference. I have used a metal detent ball for ever without problems.

[lic2q]

I have a problem with my hybrid quest cocker. the back block is not lining up with the body and it is pressed against the cocking rod and the bolt. So every shot it scraps the cocking rod. Could it be the pumping rod miss aligned? thanks.

[ironpanther]

yes it is very likely the pump arm. Make sure that the pump arm is not sticking out from the body at all.

[lic2q]

actually its pressed the other way as if the pump arm is too close to the body. thus the pressure is from the left.

[ironpanther]

hmm sounds like the pump arm is bent. is it rubbing against the side of the body?

[lic2q]

yes the pump arm does rub against the body. please advise.

[PsybusterX]

might want to buy a new pump arm... if you can't twist it around so that it doesn't rub against the body or if it creates slack by rubbing against the ram you want to get a new pump arm. better buying a $10 piece of metal than to ruin a $100+ ano job or a $30-50 ram.

[lic2q]

if i get a new pump arm, wouldn't that require re-timing the marker?

[BigSexy]

ok i finally ordered all the parts for my gun with the exception of my hammer which is out of stock still....

CCM J2 Body
CCM straight pump rod
Dye Hinge
Torpedo Reg
Twisted Delrin Bolt
Palmers LPR
Bomb 3-way
MPP ram w/ QEVs
AKA Valve
Nelson Springs
CCM IVG
Jackal Hammer
Freeflow Rounded Hammer Lug
rest of the odds and ends are being gutted from an 03 body.

i went with the advise of psy and iron in the hopes of making a fast gun. the only thing i might switch is to a CP reg seeing as a i just saw the 1st page of this forum. i should be fine on assembling the gun, lets just pray i can learn timing. thanks for all the help MODS, i think you guys steered me in the right direction. ill post up a pic in a month or so when im done

[PsybusterX]

lic2q: getting a new pump arm wouldn't require timing, but it would require adjusting the pump arm to the correct length, so the back block isn't smacking against teh body or out too far. i like to leave about 2/3 - 1 mm in distance apart from the body just to be extra care the back block won't smack.

---

Big:Looks good too me, thing is if you upgrade to an eblade you'd have to replace the lug to a flat lug. rounded lugs won't work with eblades.

[BigSexy]

ok, i started w/ my assembly and am doing the minor things like getting my feedneck on, ASA, LPR, ect. well i took my ram and my set of QEV's, and am instructionless and clueless. ive looked at pics and see the QEV as coming from the barb in back. well i took that off and the QEV wont screw on. i know theres 2 sizes of RAMs and not all RAMs will fit QEV's. does this mean i must switch RAM's? i was given a RAM off a bob long cocker for free so i didnt wait for my MPP, could the BL one be too old?

[ironpanther]

yes if you want to put a QEV on the old bob long ram you need to get one of the original ones that pnuemadyne makes. I have one if your interested otherwise wait for your mpp ram.

[BigSexy]

ok i waited on the RAM. but im still an uber n00b trying to learn. i think i know how to assemble but lets see how close i am..

inside the body:

small spring
valve ( use nut under body to hold it in place )
Jam Nut ( keep the hammer off the valve )
Hammer w/ rounded lug
big spring
IVG

outside:

outside is pretty much self explanitory. im just wondering how far to screw the pump arm and the RAM together? and how do you line up the actuator rod to the 3-way? finally once its assembled what order do you set the pressures off of?

when im done im of course gunna have to name it and id like a name that has to do with sacpb seeing as all the people here have helped talk me thru part ordering thru assembly. any ideas?

[ironpanther]

ok you have the right order inside. Don't forget to put in your locator screw that hold the valve hole inline with the hole in the body. As far as the pump arm goes screw it in until it stops or just before it would touch the ram housing with the ram all the way forward. This should leave you with about a quarter inch of threaded pump arm extended beyond the back of the body of the gun. If you don't have any pump arm extended beyond the back of the gun you either have the wrong length pump arm or you just need to unscrew it a little from the ram. You need about an eigth of an inch at least to hold on to your back block.

As far as pressures go do your tuning in this order.
1) turn your LPR almost all the way up before you gas it up. turn your inline all the way down.
2) gas up gun
3) hold your trigger down and turn up your inline reg till your back block cocks back.
4) Time your gun
5) Chrono the gun using the inline reg following sweet spotting technique for best efficiency
6) once you have the gun shooting at the proper velocity take your paint out and adjust the knob on your cocking rod so that when the bolt is all the way back it is just clear of the feedneck. If you run your finger down the back of the feedneck you should feel the tip of the bolt flush with the feedneck but should not be able to see it.
7) now start to slowly turn down your LPR until the gun no longer completely cocks.
8) From there turn your LPR up until you don't have any stuttering or half cocking. This should make it setup so it is strong enough to **** the gun but not strong enough to slice a ball.
9) check to make sure it still chronos fine then have fun.

[FWG002]

Yo Psy and Ironpanther, My eblade wouldn't shoot past half battery life, so I cut a little circle of paper the size of a dime and put it under the solenoid. Now I'm shooting until there is no bar left on the battery display!!! ;D

I didn't fold the paper or anything. Just a dime size round cut out of school paper and put it between the frame and the part of the solenoid that bounces up and down on a trigger pull.

Have you heard of anyone else trying this? Try it if you want and tell me if you have the same results.

[PsybusterX]

nah i'm good, i've always been able to shoot till it says flat. :)

[ironpanther]

hell I've been able to shoot it till the display flickered with each shot. ÂÂ*:P ÂÂ*sounds like you may be interrupting a short that is robbing power from your solenoid.

[FWG002]

hmmmmm, I had read on other forums that guys had the same problem. I though all e-blades died at half battery. Guess not. Maybe some of them are just faulty or something (shorting like you said). Well, I'm just gonna fly with it working now and hope that it keeps going.

[PsybusterX]

i'll give my full run down between Race/ANS Frames v Eblade I Frames...Getting the ANS Frame on my XTC, as soon as it's finished

[bman11]

ok so my i have a pro team cocker left feed. when i got it air would leak down the barrel so my proshop told me to get a new cup seal. so after i fixed it they let me shoot it to make sure it worked and everything seemed fine. about a week later i want to shoot it so i got to my backyard and i use my crossfire tank and when i put it in i hear pshhhhhh through my barrel again. my question is could this just be my tank or is there something wrong with my gun, again (sigh) :-/

[PsybusterX]

could be a number of things. bad valve orings, jam nut is loose, regulator is set too low, weak valve spring.

[bman11]

ahh i c im going to my pro shop to have the check it out- thanks

[ironpanther]

could just be that you forgot to **** it before putting air on. Many cockers if the hammer spring is set stronger than the valve spring it will hold the valve open until you **** it back when you first put the air on it. I have seen two ways to beat this. One always to remember to **** the hammer before putting air on or two if you have a mechanical cocker then hold the trigger down as you put the air on. this holds your three way so that the first bit of air running through it makes the gun ****.

[ballistic]

Yo Psy and Ironpanther, My eblade wouldn't shoot past half battery life, so I cut a little circle of paper the size of a dime and put it under the solenoid. Now I'm shooting until there is no bar left on the battery display!!! ;D

I didn't fold the paper or anything. Just a dime size round cut out of school paper and put it between the frame and the part of the solenoid that bounces up and down on a trigger pull.

Have you heard of anyone else trying this? Try it if you want and tell me if you have the same results.




the solenoid is a magnet that is charged when you pull the trigger.the reason that the piece of paper worked is it brought the bottom up just enough for the stronger part of the magnet to activate the and have the stenth to release the sear.

More of a perment fix for this issue is to remove the solenoid and there is a small set screw under the noid if you bring it up just a littlebit it should solve your problem.

just rember if you move that set screw too far the 'noid will not have any room to move. it is a screw that very slight ajustments make all the diffrents in the world.

[ironpanther]

hahahahha you make me laugh. I'm not laughing at you though as much as the idea of a QEV on an LPR. IF an LPR had a QEV it wouldn't work. you only put QEVs on the front and back of the ram. Period. End of discussion.

[PsybusterX]

i've seen qevs on lprs, it's useless, i just recommend them for the ram.

what qevs do is release any excess air that the ram does not need. without qevs that excess air would travel back into the lpr, slowing down the cycling process because it's slowing the next cycle of air to the ram. it's midnight and i just took a 7 hour nap, get what i'm saying?

[ironpanther]

palmers, wgp, and ecplise all have versions. Cost you will have to find out from them.

[ballistic]

Ok i have a CCM sieries 5 with an eblade and i am haveing massive shootdown problems. i can shoot a string about 3-5 long and then the next two or three are around 75fps. my main reg is set to 350psi. i am really at a loss here my eye went bad so i did not use it for a month or so. i replaced the eye and now this happens.

thanks

[ironpanther]

check your battery. If its good then you need to go into your timing and turn your COFF up a little and turn your TREL up a little.

[ballistic]

thanks i remebered those settings about an hour after posting

looks to be working great

[mrbananamann]

i sent this to psy, then remebered this thred was here. so either way someone will see it ;D

here it is...
i just finished my cocker, and theres a problem. im not sure what exactly, but im guessing its problems with the inline reg or the valve. i gas it up and air goes in...and gushes out the 3way, like the pressure is too high for it to hold in. i dow 33'd it and adjusted it all the way forward and all the way back again, and even took the rod out of the hole in the trigger and moved it back and forth manually with my fingers. it cycles, as in the back block moves back and forth, but it has problems recocking and firing. i basically move everything from my old body into a new one. could i have not put the valve in corectly, or all the way in? i sold my old inline reg (a genx-2) and now i have an angel mini reg. it should probably clean and oil it, but unless dow works then i have no oil or O-rings to rebuild it with. any help is greatly appreciated.

[paintball_karl]

its not gonna be a valve problem i dont think. the 3-way itsnt connected to the valve. which end of the 3way is it gushing out of? sounds like its horribly out of time. haha or maybe ur just missing the whole lil rod that goes into the 3way but i doubt it would go this long with out you knowing. you know how to time a cocker right? what kind of 3way do you have?

EDIT: or maybe the o-rings on ur 3-way shaft broke or cracked.

[cockthis33]

Hi i have a wgp 04 vertical feed autococker completly stock with a revy and 47/3000 tank. My ball detent has been gourging my stock bolt. Any ideas of what wrong

I need help,
Dillon

[hotdang]

karl, sounds like timing to me.

[paintball_karl]

yea thats what i was thinkin.


cockthis, i had that problems once be4. but i dont know if it would be the same but my ball detent was screwed in too far. try unscrewing it a little bit. if its too loose then take it off put some teflon and screwed in soo that it sits nicely yet bolt bypasses smoothly as well

[ghetto baller]

hey im having problem with my '03 system x vengence autococker. the is that it wont **** all the bak to let a ball in. and when i pull the trigger the three way lets alot of air out. if anyone knows how to fix it please tell me. i have had this gun for a year and only played once with it. im starting to gt reall mad >:(

[ironpanther]

though that is the most likely possibility but when the gun is not air up pull the back block back to where it stops and loock down the feedneck. If it isn't clearing the feedneck then unscrew the nut on the end of yoru cocking rod far enough back to the point where the bolt clears.

[paintball_karl]

sounds like a timing problem to me. if you know how to time a autococker then re-time it if problem persist then its prolly what ironpanther said.

[ghetto baller]

the o ring r fine i put some grease on them still leaks air how do u time it

[ironpanther]

read through this thread to learn how to time cockers.

[Got_Paint]

can you put qevs on the lpr. plus does it make it any faster. or lower pressure. j/w cuz i thought i saw a fully qev'd front block everything 'cept the soelinoid.


I was reading through the thread and I know this one is from a page back, but I thought this might be good for the thread.

Most LPR's actually are much faster than you can use.

The PPS Grinder (a tripple barreled monster on a crank) is supplied by one rock and one stabilzer. It's been clocked in at about 60 bps, so anyways most LPR's are fast enough.

[PsybusterX]

except the wgp tickler reg, worst lpr ever :P once you hit about 15-16 bps it will cause shoot down.

[paintball_karl]

Haha the tickler works for me… maybe cuz I have a mech and my fingers will only cycle up to 12 cps n e ways :)

[ghetto]

does anyone know where i can buy a pimp conversion kit?

[Xball187]

Hey guys got a question. I am building a cocker and want a custom body. Can anyone give me any web sites to check out, other than Fireballmountain? Thanx guys.

[PsybusterX]

CCM sells pump kits

also for custom bodies you can try freeflow, ccm, jackal, aim, there's others but i can't think of them atm

[ironpanther]

AIm makes some beautiful custom body kits.

[Xball187]

thanx guys. Do you know the web site for aim?

[paintball_karl]

here are many otherplaces that do custom work. found on another site.

Jackal - http://www.jackalmachine.com/

ccm - http://www.chipleymachine.com/j2body.html

fbm - http://fbmfactory.com/fbmf/cocker.html

aim - http://aimpaintball.com/default.asp

ebay - http://search.ebay.com/autococker-body_W0QQsokeywordredirectZ1QQfromZR8

martin - http://www.martinpaintball.com/home.php (do not order)

free flow - http://www.4freeflow.com/

warped - http://www.warpedsportzla.com/marketing/zforce/frameset.htm

turtle - http://www.turtlecockers.com/

fastback - http://www.electrococker.com/fastback/index.html

Dragons Designs - www.dragonsdesigns.com (http://www.dragonsdesigns.com)

or you can buy raw body from ebay ($50) and do custom work

ff - http://www.fearfactorypb.com/index.html

tarantula - http://tarantulamfg.com/index.htm

Punishers Customs - http://airsoldier.com/~punisher

Jarrett (JoshGrrrr ON pbn) - http://www.jarrettcustommachining.com/

DoroPB - http://www.doropaintball.com/index.asp

[paintballer4life05]

Hey I got a question for anyone out there that could help me out. I have a WGP 04 vertical prostock cocker. One day after we were done playing I came back to pack up my things and i went to unscrew my hopper and the feed neck came with it . Now my feedneck sometimes moves and gets in the way of my bolt. Which leads to scratching and braking my bolt. Can I bring it too a shop and have them put in a new lock feedneck. Or is the feedneck totally broken and 04 vertical prostocks can't except those upgraded feednecks. Please help me out here . THANK YOU

[PsybusterX]

the 04 prostock has a press fit feed neck you can't upgrade it. best thing to do is either call up WGP in Corona, CA or go to a local machineshop ie: Palmers to get it fixed.

[paintballer4life05]

Hey thank you for the info. I will try to make it out to a shop to get fixed. ;D

[Rico]

Hinge Frames

Take your choice:
KAPP Reflex
Eclipse Blade
Jackal 90*
CCM 86*

If anyone has used the custom and rare CCM IR3 Autococker Space Frames, PLEASE give me a call or something about them. ÂÂ*I wanna know how well they work, I believe only 10 or so are out there.


Is this what your talking about? it looks more like a Warpd sportz frame then a ccm, but i could be wrong. anyway the performance is pretty much the same as any other hinge. with some work you can get it running smoother and lighter, but the same can be said about anyother hinge. other then the frame design its just another hinge. some people like the space frame and other likes the 45 so in terms of feel it's all preference. however the the deign would make it really nice thing to have on a pump cocker.

Pros:
-Looks cool
-built in snatch and beaver tail
-nice grips

Cons:
-It's rare so no doubt it would cost alot
-it seemed like it was easier to short stroke

Overall: 9/10

http://img156.exs.cx/img156/2830/darkcocker8fz.jpg

btw, this is my friends gun/frame, so don't ask to buy or trade for it ;D

[Snwbrdr1824]

Hey yall, im very noob at the autococker, so please dont flame me for it:)
Very simple question: After(and most likely before use...) how and what should I clean, and what should I clean it with(ie. using a water-alchohal solution or lube or what?)

The more detailed you are the better, thanks in advance.

[PsybusterX]

your barrel and bolt is the only things you should clean, or where there's any paint (like near your 3way and such). for lubricant use dow 33 on every oring on the gun: valve, inline reg, etc..this should be done every few months of play if you play moderately. and use gold cup gun oil and put 2 drops in the asa (where your tank screws into your gun). this is just basic maintaince, once your gun is dialed in you shouldn't need to break down your gun and clean it very often, i do it to my guns maybe once a year. cockers hold up very well once it's been properly setup.

[Snwbrdr1824]

Another problem/question. I took my gun to a local(sorta) paintball shop, and he determined that there WAS a problem, the lug(or the screw that adjusts the lug), by the previous owner, was red-locktited in, and it is too far forward, which is bad for the valve there(going off of memory of what the "mechanic" told me). I wanted to know how serious of a problem this is, and exactly what does having that lug forward do? I was also reading about removing red locktite by heating the screw to 400 degrees with a sauter(sp- saw-ter) iron and that should break the bond that the locktite has. The other problem is that if I were to get that screw out, I dont know what to do with that lug; what is the purpose of the lug and where SHOULD it be? Thanks for any help you guys provide
-Kyle

[PsybusterX]

having the lug screwed in too far just causes timing issues, it doesn't have anything to do with the valve, or damaging the valve, so you are ok in that point.

What I would do is take out your hammer, and get a blow torch and heat up the loctite and then screw it out, don't use a soldering iron.

[one_big_fatass]

My Martin halfblock won't recock.

[blackmagicbob]

time it? thats all i can think about unless it needs oil or a clogged hose.

[Ginormous98]

Here is a question. Is there a way to make a mini orracle into a pump. The biggest obstical i see is that the front block and the stablizer adapter are both one piece, and to my understanding, the CCM pump kit replaces the front block. Marbe im wrong?

Any info would be appreciated

[Craig_Palmer]

You can side tap the valve thus running a line down to a Female Stabilizer on the bottom of the grip...

[Ginormous98]

I appreciate the help Craig.
Out of curiousity, can you guys do that kind of modification at your shop?

Im not sure exactly what this would consist of but i imagine it means running a line from the bottom of the grip to somewhere on the side of the gun.

[lic2q]

i just got a psychoballistics superbolt from my friend but the backblock threads where the cocking rod screws in are stripped. what are my options in doing repairs myself as i know psychoballistics doesn't make these guns anymore. any advise will help. thanks.

[Craig_Palmer]

I appreciate the help Craig.
Out of curiousity, can you guys do that kind of modification at your shop?

Im not sure exactly what this would consist of but i imagine it means running a line from the bottom of the grip to somewhere on the side of the gun.


Im not supposed to list prices here. Send me a PM and I will reply to it.

next post

Back Block... You might be able to glue it back in with JB weld or Liquid Metal. Lock-tite might also work.. You also might be able to get a shop to insert a "Heli-Coil" new metal threads.

[lic2q]

Back Block... You might be able to glue it back in with JB weld or Liquid Metal. Lock-tite might also work.. You also might be able to get a shop to insert a "Heli-Coil" new metal threads.





thanks craig,
i will go with the glues than the heli-coil.

[lic2q]

new problem. i air up my marker and its wouldn't cycle completely and leaks air at the front of the barrel. timing issue?

[shockler]

**** the marker by pulling the cocking rod back before airing up marker.Not doing so can cause the hammer to keep the valve open causing air to burst out your barrel.As for it not cycling completely,readjust the lpr reg(post if you need help with this)

[lic2q]

thanks. but i did **** the gun before i aired it up. the leak is after i pull the trigger. i pull the bolt again and it stopped the leak but i know it hasn't fully cycled. i have to pull the bolt every time after a trigger pull and the leak would stop. please lmk how to adjust the lpr.
could this be caused by me adjusting the pump rod. the reason i adjusted the pump rod was the back block threads were striped. the pump rod was flush with the body leaving no thread to screw in the back block thus i adjusted the pump rod so that i can screw in the back block without pulling the pump rod.
thanks.

[p8ballerdude]

What trigger frame is better the E1 or SF? I'm not sure what either go for but i'm a little curious as to which would be a better choice and for what prices.

[lowdies107]

im new to the bladed cockers whats the best board to put into a worrblade?

[JayHrad]

zerob? just get an e2.

[M&M27]

Does anyone have experience half blocking a cocker?
Can I do it to my pump even though my pump doesn’t have a side portal window?

[helly3s]

can cockers get new boards?

[Skrubly]

My thoughts on cockers:

1) E1, E2, SF frame - if the SF frame is the one they put on the Trilogy series, don't get it. It's impossible to find parts/replacements for, and it sucks. Get something else. Or get whatever board works the best with an MQ2 valve and get that.

2) I'm not sure who is making modern replacement boards for cockers. Anybody got any ideas?

3) Halfblocking pump - yeah, pretty much any cocker can be halfblocked regardless of the portal window. You're going to need to get the dimensions to cut, which for some reason I can't find right now. I thought it was on halfblocked.com, but maybe I'm spacing on that one. Make sure to spend a lot of time with some emery cloth to make sure your pump rods don't rub too much and that the clearances for the bolt are good and don't bind.

4) Timing problems on autocockers? Put on a pump kit! Or search youtube for the cocker timing video - it's awesome.

5) Problem with your electronic frame? Put on a single finger slider trigger!

6) Single finger slider trigger not returning correctly? Take the spring out of a ballpoint pen and put it in the frame!