Sportsmanship in the sport of Paintball

[Sinister_Prime]

[quote]Team Sinister Paintball supports the legitimizing of Paintball as a mainstream sport. In order to promote this concept, we encourage AND REQUIRE good sportsmanship and ethical conduct from our members. If trash-talking, wiping, cheating, bonus-balling or poor sportsmanship is the way you play or the behavior that you support, then you are encouraged to try out for another team. Thank you.



[quote]I felt I needed to compliment your ethics, It's not often I see that anymore, and I just wanted to tell ya that I really respect what you have going.

Good luck and I hope your guys do well on the field and off!

I have been told (by one of my own teammates even) that the poor sportsmanship in paintball is "just the way it is", and that you also have to be that way in order to be competetive. I think that this is a "lay down and take it in the rear" attitude, and that the poor sportsmanship in paintball will only be acceptable as long as people keep accepting it. The fact of the matter is, the people who are doing things like wiping and trash talking are only trying to compensate for their lack of skill or moral ambition. Even Rich Telford noted in the most recent issue of Facefull how the honesty and morality of the sport has declined. It will only continue as long as people put up with it. Take a stand! Sack up and call yourself out when your hit, and keep your bad comments to yourselves!

I think it would be great if one day I could go sign up for an elective class in Paintball at the nearby college, or if I can turn on Wide World of Sprots and see a paintball game. Or how about Paintball as an Olympic sport? (Why not, CURLING is an Olympic sport). But this will never happen as long as people lay down and let the poor sports rule.

Mabey I can't change the sport as a whole, but I can keep it out of MY team! I challenge each and every one of you who reads this to take my lead!

[buckyshotu]

WORD

[spyder_aka]

Ya it sucks, but maybe time will come that they will find a better way to catch cheating, or at least penelize it.

[paint_punk459]

i think if ur caught wiping u should be disqualified because wiping can change the outcome of the whole tournament. i mean think about it, if its the final game and they are pullin a 2 on 1 at the end and the 1 gets hit but wipes and then shoots out the 2, then he just took the trophy and prizes from the other team.

[toolfan]

its gonna happen..it happens it every sport..u wont ever have a sport without cheaters..deal with it

[IMAGINE_A_SPYDER04]

paintball should be in the olympics. Freakin badmitton is in the olympics. Thats not a sport its a picnic recreation.

And there are cheaters in everything so u just have to shoot them more. ;D

[Sinister_Prime]

its gonna happen..it happens it every sport..u wont ever have a sport without cheaters..deal with it


Like I said, as long as people have this attitude it will never change. Other sports have some form of regulations (like instant replay in football). And do you think Tiger Woods could get away with dropping a ball in a golf tournament? No way! But cheating in paintball is something that some players even brag about doing. How respectable will this sport ever be with attitudes like this? Why should the honest players shelling out tons of cash to enter tournaments have to "deal with it" when someone cheating comes along and grabs all the prizes? Mabey the cheaters should have to deal with some penalties for their actions for a change.

[SicJester101]

I'm sorry to say, but as long as someone wants to win bad enough, cheating will be there. it wont be something givin up willingly

[asdf]

paintball should be in the olympics. Freakin badmitton is in the olympics. Thats not a sport its a picnic recreation.


whoa there man, have you seen olympic badminton? Its pretty hardcore stuff. Definitely not a picnic recreation sport if that thing comes flying at you at 200mph.

As for the whole sportsmanship thing, hats off to you sinister.

[PBALLIN]

although i do think that inorder for this sport to grow cheating needs to be cut back... right now the only difference between a good am team and decent pro team is the pro's cheat better
-mike

[gang_a_change]

ya, in the greay area article rich also say that he dosent care about cheating, when you admit to cheating, he dosent mind it so much, nether do i, adn liek pballin said, once your a pro, it becomes part of the game, jsut liek football, there are pentiltys....that is jsut how i think it is. To the supject of paintballing being an olimpic sport, that woudl be cool. i mean look ping pong is in the olimpics...how would we pick a team to go to the olimpics? I say good game after a game, but when prizes are out there, peopel to prety much whatever to get them.

[Sinister_Prime]

Yes you all have good points about the cheating, I KNOW it will never stop. But the difference between paintball and other sports is that it seems to be encouraged, and there are no penalties. In football, the players are taking a chance. They might get away with it, but if a ref catches them it could cost their team a lot of yards, and perhaps the game.

Better regulation and sportsmanship among the players in paintball COULD keep this behavior to a minimum. It's up to each individual player to want to make a change. Think about it, if you were winning a tourney, and some team edged you out because a hit player went behind his bunker and wiped his hit, even the people who cheat themselves would be upset.

Like I said, I challenge each and every one of you to follow my lead!

[paint_punk459]

there are penaltys in paintball. where do u play? for example:
CHRONO PROCEDURES

* Chrono Limit will be 300 FPS
* All players will chrono on before each game
* Players will be chronoed during the game at the referees discretion
�Players shooting 301fps-310fps on the field will be eliminiated from the game
�Players shooting 311fps or above will be eliminated as will another member of their team

PENALTIES

1 for 1: The offending player is eliminated along with another member of their team
EXAMPLE: Continuing play with an unobvious hit (on your knee pad, pack, hopper, etc.)

2 for 1: The offending player will be eliminated along with 2 members of their team
EXAMPLE: Continuing play with a more obvious obvious hit (somewhere on your person) or continuing to play breifly after a referee eliminates you

3 for 1: The offending player is eliminated along with 3 members of their team
EXAMPLE: Continuing play with an obivious or multiple hits (goggle shots, etc), WIPING A HIT, or continuing to play after a referee eliminates you

[hotdang]

cheating will always exist, tolerance for it is up to us. pb will not grow or be much fun if cheating becomes the rule instead of the rare exception.

[superboy3624]

Even Rich Telford noted in the most recent issue of Facefull how the honesty and morality of the sport has declined.




rich telford also talks a lot of **** about the mommas boys. Morality ???

[ballistic]

PENALTIES

1 for 1: The offending player is eliminated along with another member of their team
EXAMPLE: Continuing play with an unobvious hit (on your knee pad, pack, hopper, etc.)

2 for 1: The offending player will be eliminated along with 2 members of their team
EXAMPLE: Continuing play with a more obvious obvious hit (somewhere on your person) or continuing to play breifly after a referee eliminates you

3 for 1: The offending player is eliminated along with 3 members of their team
EXAMPLE: Continuing play with an obivious or multiple hits (goggle shots, etc), WIPING A HIT, or continuing to play after a referee eliminates you


the down side of this is that those penalties are not that bad, so you get caught lose one game, and go on the rest of the day cheating to win and not get caught. tourneys should disqualfy you (the cheater) from the day. makes you think twice when you put up that much money and get kicked out for not playing fair.

[Sinister_Prime]

Having rules and having them actually enforced are two different things. I won't name any specific events, but we've all encountered tournaments with refs that "turn a blind eye" to their favored team's actions. Just like cheating, it happens all the time.

Is just dong the right thing really so hard? Only for those with no real talent as far as I'm concerned.

If we all band together on this, mabey we CAN see paintball go prime-time one day. And mabey we CAN see paintball in the olympics (along with badmitton and curling lol). Stand up for yourself when it happens to you, and call people on it when you see it. Eventually the guilty parties will be tired of being labeled "cheaters" and give it up (or at least not do it so frequently and blatantly).

Also, I never knew Rich Telford was saying bad things about anyone, or I wouldn't have used him as an example. His article just happened to be the most recent one I've read on the subject of cheating.

[toolfan]

why should the player get kicked out? players in other sports that get caught dont get kicked out..and the rules r enforced in big tournys but refs r human beings so they r not perfect..they cant see everything..and players use that to their advantage and cheat..o well..if they win then learn how to play better or cheat better...

[ballistic]

well they are thrown out of the game that day and fined a lot of money. suspensions happen in sports all the time. this is the same idea. we cannot fine players for doing things wrong but if you are sent home eventualy you will learn to play the game by the rules

[gang_a_change]

paintball being mainstreamed, ya that woudl be cool, but no offense what other sport to people shoot at each other in? Of course it is gona get heated, plus it is exciting to see peniltys, that would get peopel watchign more rialed up, make them keep their interest in watching.... i woudlent want to liek watch peeple jsut play...look at derder, taht is what peopel want, alto of acton, sweet moves were peopel get there faces mowed.....

[toolfan]

true^^no one wants to see a bunch of guys being polite and stuff..they wanna see fighting and arguing and bunkering..action is where its at..not no girly ass ways u guys r thing of..

[gang_a_change]

i mena i am nice adn have fun, but ya.

[Dark-Eclipse]

true^^no one wants to see a bunch of guys being polite and stuff..they wanna see fighting and arguing and bunkering..action is where its at..not no girly ass ways u guys r thing of..



Comming from all people, why would you want to see fighting in paintball Jon?

I understand where both parties are comming in on this, one's totaly disgusted by cheating while the other party says it's ok, You all are down for the same cause right? To see the sport flourish and grow but correct me if i'm wrong but when something is split in half here it obvisouly won't grow right. I don't forsee the possibility of this sport getting to terribly big when one side is pulling and the other tuggin.

In my opinion what it comes down to is morals, we all obvisouly have our own set, some just choose to use them differently.

My 2 cents

[toolfan]

i never said i wanted to see fighting..but thats what most teens nowadays want..

[Sinister_Prime]

well they are thrown out of the game that day and fined a lot of money. suspensions happen in sports all the time. this is the same idea. we cannot fine players for doing things wrong but if you are sent home eventualy you will learn to play the game by the rules


Hey somebody here actually gets what I'm trying to say! ;D

I'm happy to hear everybody's opinions on this matter. Believe it or not, even just a few people can make a difference!

[Sinister_Prime]

true^^no one wants to see a bunch of guys being polite and stuff..they wanna see fighting and arguing and bunkering..action is where its at..not no girly ass ways u guys r thing of..


Who said anything about being polite? You can play with extreme aggression and still play fair. It's called sportsmanship. Obviously you don't get it.

And last time I checked, fighting on ANY field gets you banned from that field for life (and possibly thrown in jail). Plus it makes you look like a complete ass.

[Mattaydizzle]

Put it this way.

Would u purchase a paintball video where a guy gets shot out and says to the other guy while getting out " hey man great shot!"

Would u watch a paintball video where a guy bunkers someone and puts 1 on their pack?

Or how about a video without cussing and yelling?

Trust me, you all have seen 300fps. Fighting, Cussing, Wiping, Bunch a guys doing what it takes to take home a 1st place.

my 23.1 Cents

[toolfan]

thatsa a Gang A ¢hange right thurr^^

[Sinister_Prime]

Anyone can wipe paint off of themselves. And these forums prove that anyone can trash talk. But does either one require any skill? No! Does the fact that so many people do it make it right? Not even!

And yes I would pay for a video where the players are actually demonstrating some SKILLS. It's like watching a great athlete, being able to overcome tremendous odds and still come out on top. That's what makes them great, and what separates them from the rest.

[Mattaydizzle]

u do that.

[PBALLIN]

Anyone can wipe paint off of themselves. And these forums prove that anyone can trash talk. But does either one require any skill? No!



i disagree, paintball has come to the point where cheating IS a skill. It's not att the ppl who every1 sees cheating who are good at it... its the ppl who can get shot in fromt of 2 refs and a sideline full of ppl and have noone see them... those r the good cheaters and although i dont necessarily condone cheating i do believe it takes skill
-mike

[Spank]

Thank you cheaters for enlightening all of us that indeed there are many people that cheat in the world and cheat in every sport. I would have never figured it out.. ::)

The reason honor is held in such high regard is because it is rare.

Some people have honor, some don't. Those with honor are in my opinion better people than those without. I actually encourage this new trend of cheaters pointing themselves out by trying to justify cheating and even standing by their comrades who also partake in this dishonorable activity, it makes it a lot easier separating the good people from the bad.

Many years ago in Germany there was a VERY large group of people that murdered women and children, they even had neat little red arm bands they wore (kinda like team jersey's of the time) that let every one else know they were part of this group that murdered women and children. Because everyone was doing it, did that really make it OK?

[gang_a_change]

lol, and what does wiping a paintball hit have to do with murdering children.....lol, that isnt like even a comparison.

[soHIGH]

on the contrary mr. frank,

the germans wanted to create perfect race of humans. they had to justify killing many innocent people for the perfect man (blond hair, blue eyes, white naturally). the only way for everyone to stay alive was to comply with them therefor including them in the "care of life". anyone not inside their little circle was inhuman. but i dont stand up for these germans. lol this example has nothing to do with the topic

*sigh* i digress. cheaters=exist. cheaters=bad. dont cheat=good. but if someone wipes but no one knows or saw it happen, did he cheat?

[Spank]

Wow, thanks for the free history lesson, although it wasn't so much of a lesson since I have graduated high school a good number of years ago. The Germans did in fact murder women and children, their motives (such as to create the perfect race) do little to change the fact they still murdered women and children. Their "circle" was the vision of one man who convinced more men who in change convinced even more men that murdering women and children would rush in a new era for Germany and it's "master race". When you have 1000 people who are led by a very persuasive leader it's much easier to follow along because "everyone else is doing it".

My original metaphor has very much to do with this topic in that just because everyone does it, still doesn't make it OK, although some missed the point of it. Maybe I should have used a different metaphor such as: "Just because everyone watches Queer Eye for the Straight guy and now wears pink tank tops, still doesn't make it OK." ;D

Stupid me trying to wax metaphorically on a paintball message board....

[soHIGH]

u mean u dont wear pink tank tops :-[

sorry if i get my history from georgio agamben. those damn post-modernist authors....

[toolfan]

u mean u dont wear pink tank tops :-[

He probably would if they fit him.

[Got_Paint]

I am openly against cheating...can't stand it at all.

If you wipe a hit, I feel that you're only fooling yourself into thinking you deserve to be the one still in. There will be another game in 5 minutes...I just don't see why you can't wait.

I play pump 100% of the time wether it be stock class or open stock, I don't have the option to put more than once, and let me tell you there is nothing that makes me madder than seeing someone wipe off that one ball I got on the person because I outplayed or out-thought them. Getting hit is telling you that you screwed up! Learn from it! See what you did wrong and think of how to change it next time instead of fooling yourself and ignoring that you did something wrong!

I'd glady be the worst player at the field if it meant not cheating because I could never get the other players to not wipe, I hold myself to a set of morals, to keep the game.

Just because other sports have cheating is no excuse for there to be cheating in paintball. In Nazi Germany just because a large group of people sought to become the perfect race by killing the socialists...jews...gyspsy's...ect did that mean it was right?

Hell no!

We all know that it's never fun to be cheated against wheter you cheat or not, it stems back to ""Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." If you cheat it's just karma that's gonna come back and bite you in the ass.

From so much cheating around, it has come to the point where I can't leave the field without someone putting 8 balls into me because they think I'll wipe it off. I've seen people amazed that they haven't been drilled more than once.

A lot of it stems back from the "whatever it takes to win" ethics I keep hearing...if you have the drive to win like that, you take all the fun out of the game...

Sadly the world isn't like that, because people just don't get it...I'd rather and will go back and live in my little bubble of a perfect game, thank you.

You want to stop cheating...make an example, have good sportsmanship.

[gang_a_change]

wow, i still dotn get what being a nazi hasta do with wiping... ???

[Got_Paint]

It's an analogy

People say cheating is alright because other sports do it.


So is it also alright to say that because a lot of people in germany were in favor of killing so many people did that justify it.


A bit of an extreme anology to say the least, but yeah...

[Spank]

Exactly Got_Paint, but it was to make a point which many missed. It had nothing to do with paintball, it was to say justifying the murder of thousands because "everyone else was doing it" is just as ignorant as saying you cheat because everybody else does.

I just think the worst part of cheating in paintball today is that so many young kids are actually BRAGGING about cheating. It degrades you, it degrades your team, it degrades the sport of paintball.

The reason I actually care is because I know many of theses kids and they are good kids, but I'm afraid with an attitude like this, they will grow up with no values.




He probably would if they fit him.


So you're saying you wear pink tank tops because they fit you?

Oh that's cool and all you choose that alternative lifestyle and as an American I support you and your freedoms, it's just.. ya know.. pink tank tops aren't the Fonz's leather jacket of 2004 is all I'm saying.

"Ayyyyy!" ;D

[gang_a_change]

sure, I might cheat, and i do have I pank ****, that I actuly were, adn I work hard, with my dad busness, but I have no values??? Frank I don't think that you shoud talk.

[Sinister_Prime]

I would like to thank everyone for posting their comments about sportsmanship in paintball. It's good to hear all the different opinions.

It is unfortunate however that some people try and take the forum in a different direction by complaining about nazis and pink shirts. The comparisons that were being made equate to "just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean that it is right". Sorry if the analogy is lost on some of you.

I have chosen to take a stand against bad sportsmanship in paintball, because I feel it will only help the sport as a whole. I am sure that all who rely on poor sportsmanship to get by in life will continue to speak against me, but it will not deter my ambition. Without any enforcement of rules, paintball really can't be called a sport, and I think that is a great injustice to all players.

I would like to thank people like Spank and Got Paint for supporting this concept. And gang of change, try being a REAL gang of change and start trying to play ethically. You might find that you may actually have some real skill at paintball.

[Spank]

sure, I might cheat, and i do have I pank ****, that I actuly were, ÂÂ*adn I work hard, with my dad busness, but I have no values??? Frank I don't think that you shoud talk.


You have "pank sh*t" that you wear? What!?!?

Does it hurt?

[lordnando]

To start out I think there have been some really good opinions expressed in this thread and I have held my tongue to see what people would say. Personally I can't stand cheating. I have noticed that alot of the people who cheat are the same ones that will go back to the parking lot and complain about refs or brag about how many people they shot. I also believe that it is important that many of us remember that it is just a game and that if someone cheats us there really is no harm done (not to mention it gives us a bonus ball excuse ;D). Granted with a tournament that is different and for that I would say, be a stand up team, sack up and play, don't get down because you saw someone else cheat and hopefully things will change.

[jcaskey1]

If you wipe a hit, I feel that you're only fooling yourself into thinking you deserve to be the one still in. ÂÂ*There will be another game in 5 minutes...I just don't see why you can't wait.




Well most of the poeple that are talking about wiping they dont do it during "Rec" they play tnys left and right, and me playing tnys also i know that if you dont cheat you will never get first(I know yady yady everyone thinks that way it is the problem little speach) because i have played alot i mean a alot of tnys every team they got first cheeted one way or another, they have the do what it takes to get first, maybe they dont want "sportsmemship" or "honor" maybe they want those phat prizes.

I mean dont just complain about us cheeting complain about the whole world doing crap, at lease were not out doing dope(some of us) out shooting little pricks and crap were playing paintball and when we play rec we dont have to wipe casue we rearly get hit, its to simple, thats why we play against other teams becasue we want a challenge so we can "learn" more "Skills" cause playing rec doesnt do that.

But anyways i know your going to respond saying im wrong, and this is what i said wrong becasue there is no right side to a teenage view just like all parents think so whatever

James

[ballistic]

I'd glady be the worst player at the field if it meant not cheating because I could never get the other players to not wipe, I hold myself to a set of morals, to keep the game.


could not say it better myself.

play hard, play to win, but play by the rules.

all the cheating that goes on everyday in the sport is making it harder and harder for us that play by the rules, to have a chance at winning.

[Spank]

maybe they dont want "sportsmemship" or "honor" maybe they want those phat prizes.


Maybe I don't want to get up every morning at 6am and commute to Elk Grove and work for 8 hours so I can make the payment for my new truck.

Maybe I should just sleep in and steal a new truck. Why earn something when you can steal it? Oh yeah, everyone else does it...

I don't think I've seen anyone more obsessed and have such a love for the sport of paintball than jcaskey1, and you try and justify cheating? Guess I was wrong, you just want those "phat prizes".

[1_big_guy]

Maybe I should just sleep in and steal a new truck. Why earn something when you can steal it? Oh yeah, everyone else does it...
".
i would frank ;D but thats me ;)

[wildwilly]

I can't stand cheaters.

No matter how you try to justify it, cheating is a poor attempt to make up for a lack of skill and shows poor moral character.

[toolfan]

So you're saying you wear pink tank tops because they fit you?

Oh that's cool and all you choose that alternative lifestyle and as an American I support you and your freedoms, it's just.. ya know.. pink tank tops aren't the Fonz's leather jacket of 2004 is all I'm saying. ÂÂ*

"Ayyyyy!" ;D


where did that come outta my post? u just rambled on for like a paragraph..for no damn reason..what an idiot..

[Spank]

where did that come outta my post? u just rambled on for like a paragraph..for no damn reason..what an idiot..




u mean u dont wear pink tank tops :-[



He probably would if they fit him.


What an idiot is right. ::)

[jcaskey1]

No where did i say i cheet i dont. i am jsut saying i have seen and have played tnys and I have never gotin 1st, i have gottin 2nds up the rear but jsut because we didnt cheet we couldnt ever win the finals its just how it was, thats wht i am say, and i do have a love of this sport i love it more then anything. but it was just my view on wiping doesnt mean i do it, you can ask anyone no one has ever i mean ever seen me cheet..

James

[toolfan]

And?i didnt say i did.. ::)

[Kaleb_Voris]

I think that a little bit of trash talking is good for every sport. I dont not support cheating.

[JT_man]

I dont like people who cheat because when you cheat I think it gives a bad impression on the new people that are just starting :-/

[Sinister_Prime]

I think that a little bit of trash talking is good for every sport. ÂÂ*I dont not support cheating.


I do have to agree with this one, but only to a certain extent. Trash talking actually motivates and keeps things interesting. But the kind of trash talking I think is bad for the sport is the type that is completely vulgar, profane or hurtful. Telling someone that they're fat or gay or stupid, or dropping the f-bomb a hundred times isn't doing anything to gain approval from the masses for our great sport. But telling a player they couldn't hit the side of a barn, or even saying "you suck at paintball" is tolerable. But even this type of trash talking should be reserved for people you actually know. Running off at the mouth to a complete stranger just makes you look like a jerk. The really mean spirited people (usually the same ones that are wiping paint) always have to take it a step too far and make it personal.

Another reason trash talking bad for the sport is when it comes to introducing new players to paintball. This usually involves a parent taking their 10+ year old to a field for the first time. When there are a bunch of punks in the staging areas dropping the F-bomb like a bunch of drunken sailors, the parents not only want to take thier kids away but they also tell other parents. This just makes the whole sport look bad.

[SicJester101]

well the refs are getting smarter. heres a good sign dynasty isnt invicible anymore ;)

[jcaskey1]

When there are a bunch of punks in the staging areas dropping the F-bomb like a bunch of drunken sailors, the parents not only want to take thier kids away but they also tell other parents. This just makes the whole sport look bad.


well you only have to say it once to mkae parents pissed and dont want there kids there and everyone slips i dont know relly anybody that cusses left in right, i mean they slip every so offten i know i have and you have so yeah you cant juge them unless you get to know them or are aroudn them all the time

[jcaskey1]

people were cheating when i played my first tourney in '91. the only thing that has changed is the penalty for it. the act (or art) of cheating will never go away no matter how valiant an effort you put forth, it's just the way it is.


Finnally somoene that is older, not to old, just right..lol..but yeah that is what im trying to say it wont go away no matter how you try but you can do you pat or whatever and i do mine ;D "Just a joke"which is to temp you to wipe when i shoot you"just a joke"

james

[BigSexy]

heres my 2 cents....

for all those who cheat and have pride you should play a round of paintball that used to exist and still might. That game is Terminator rules. Basically you call yourself out when you cant take the pain of multiple hits. Ive personally played this once and learned the pain of multiple hits. So if you condone cheating you condone the risk of multiple hits, Why not play a round and see how many wipes you can last?

[toolfan]

y? that doesnt sound liek fun..paintball is supposed to be fun

[ballistic]

you brought up a good point paintball is to be fun that is why we all spend so much money and time out there. why is cheating nessary to have fun.

[toolfan]

well i was kinda lying..i rarely have alot of fun anymore..winning is what drives me..and prolly alot of ppl..and they will do what it takes to win..even if it resorts to cheating..but when u r spending over a g in big name tournys..ur not gonna wanna go home empty handed..ur gonna do what it takes to get that 1st place prize..

[Kaleb_Voris]

why dont you just get better than cheat to win a tourny? maybee spend a few hours practicing?

[coyote]

I operate a paintball business...

I have never sponsored any pro style tourney, or any teamsd that play them. Why? I don't want the people who buy my gear to associate with immature, foul mouthed, cheating children (that word applies to the attitude of the player, not their age). You ballers who cheat to win little prizes keep the businesses from offering bigger better tournies. The money in this sport isn't the long term player. It is the new blood. The bad behavior of todays player chases the newbies away.

The cheaters are the thieves too. The guy that steals another ballers gear isn't the guy who calls himself every time. He is the wiper. Character isn't something you turn on and off. It is who you are. Real winners carry themselves like champions all of the time. Cheaters do whatever they can get away with, no matter who else comes up short.

If you guys want to see paintball as a mainstream sport you better help with it's PR. ESPN isn't going to televise a full season of any pro circuit untill the cheating and the foul mouths disappear. Multiple TV cameras and slo mo replays will show paintball in its worst light. If half of what we see of Dynasty is wiping and playing on it wiill be hard to convince Coke or Nike to buy advertising when they are on the tube.

Paintballers aren't seen as sportman. The game is seen as a dumping ground for cussing, spoiled teens with funny hair. So it comes down to a choice. You get to be part of the problem, or part of the solution?

[toolfan]

why dont you just get better than cheat to win a tourny? maybee spend a few hours practicing?


i dont cheat in tournys and i dont cheat in practice unless the other team is..its not worth it to me to cheat in tournys..but that doesnt mean that other ppl wont do it

[jcaskey1]

why dont you just get better than cheat to win a tourny? maybee spend a few hours practicing?


Thats the problem peopel do practice but then go to tnys and you get cheated by anohter team that wiped and you lose..sooo..you get pissed and after happening where you practice so much and still lose to wipers you have the old saying..if you cant beat em then join em..

James

[Sinister_Prime]

Thats the problem peopel do practice but then go to tnys and you get cheated by anohter team that wiped and you lose..sooo..you get pissed and after happening where you practice so much and still lose to wipers you have the old saying..if you cant beat em then join em..

James


Sorry to have to correct you on this one but the REAL problem is that not enough people stand up for themselves when they are cheated against. Granted, a lot of referees won't do much about it. But if enough people complain about someone who constantly cheats, they will have to do something. If a player or a team becomes known for cheating or wiping, then the honest players will just bonus-ball the hell out of them until they give up. Plus they will always be watched more closely, and will probably be accused of cheating even if the're not cheating at the time. But that is the least they deserve for their unsportsmanlike conduct. It's called cause and effect, or karma.

And this isn't limited to just players. Spectators that see people wiping should make it known to all when it happens too. Just this past weekend at a Valley Thunder "Thunder Cup" tourney I heard SEVERAL spectators say they saw a guy pull a flag and blatantly use it to wipe a hit off of his marker, right in front of a referee. But nothing was said, and the player got away with it and his team won the round (unfairly). I did not see it personally or I WOULD have said something. And I dont really care if people hate me for it, or talk a lot of smack about me, or threaten to kick my ass. I don't like them for playing dishonestly so the feeling is mutual. Fact of the matter is they just don't like being called on their crappy behavior, and I call it every time I see it. Thats the bottom line, I have zero tolerance for B.S. like that.

People hosting tournaments could make a difference here too. If they initiate a "zero tolerance" policy in which a team is ejected from a tournament with no refund if caught cheating, a lot of people would think twice before doing it. At least make it a 3-strikes thing; get caught once, pull 2 players - caught twice, forfeit of the round - third time and the whole team gets to go home. Would the teams that cheat risk losing their $$$ entry fees or a chance at the phat prizes if those rules were in effect?

And for those of you who say it's impossible to get to the top without cheating, I've got 2 words for you; RUSSIAN - LEGION. If you read the magazines, those guys play with the upmost sportsmanship, and now they are at the top of the European divisions for their efforts. It CAN be done people.............

[toolfan]

the rules are enforced and they have bad penalties for them..but a lot of people who cheat constantly are good at it and refs dont see them wiping..lol honestly idk why anyones im replying to this or anyone else..this thread will not change a damn thing..so why argue..go play paintball

[Sinister_Prime]

lol honestly idk why anyones im replying to this or anyone else..this thread will not change a damn thing

You've posted to this thread 12 times yourself! ???

And you are right, this thread will not change anything, PEOPLE will.

[laratrel]

PENALTIES

1 for 1: The offending player is eliminated along with another member of their team
EXAMPLE: Continuing play with an unobvious hit (on your knee pad, pack, hopper, etc.)

2 for 1: The offending player will be eliminated along with 2 members of their team
EXAMPLE: Continuing play with a more obvious obvious hit (somewhere on your person) or continuing to play breifly after a referee eliminates you

3 for 1: The offending player is eliminated along with 3 members of their team
EXAMPLE: Continuing play with an obivious or multiple hits (goggle shots, etc), WIPING A HIT, or continuing to play after a referee eliminates you


ok just to clear some of this up to NPPL current rules

there isnt a penalty for playing on with an onobvious hit(besides you being eliminated), unless they can prove that you know that the hit is there, and the ONLY unobvious hit is in the pack.

1 for 1 is playing on with an ovbious hit(ex. anywere on any of your equipment excluding your pack) this includes your hoper, and knee pads. *also arguing with a ref*

2 for 1 playing on with an unobvious hit and proceding to change the cource of the game(ex. shooting another player or pulling the flag with an obvious hit)

3 for 1 wiping, any such thing

some of the more servere punishments are like throwing your marker, 6 GAME SUSPENSION, so if there are only 5 games left in your day, the extra game continues over to the next event.

shooting with intent to injure is a 3 game suspension(i believe its 3, if not more)

throwing punches gets you either 3 or 6 or somewere around there

[gang_a_change]

wow...msot nubs will be liek ooh i hit him i know it....lol and you want peopel to get kicked out over that?

[coyote]

Gang...

That is what you got out of the last 5 pages?

The point is it is up to the experienced player to set the example, and the refs to make good calls.

No folks, it isn't about being perfect. Cheating will still happen. But it will happen less.

[wildwilly]

wow...msot nubs will be liek ooh i hit him i know it....lol and you want peopel to get kicked out over that?

And as it is now, they probably did hit the player but the player was likely to wipe it bc they were hit by a noob >:(. ÂÂ*Sac up and leave the field when your hit.

Sinister-prime, while I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying that red font is making me dizzy ;)

[Sinister_Prime]

Is this a better color?

[SicJester101]

Cheat or get cheated and untill you quit *****ing about it, and actually do something to stop it ( other than complain in a forum )
your going to get cheated. sorry but when it comes to win or loose you see it for what it is.

rec players cheating...your weak!....just beacue a "kid" shot you doesnt mean you should cheat. just because you got the "flag"
and you dont want to loose it doesnt mean shat turn it over and play again....

[Sinister_Prime]

Cheat or get cheated and untill you quit *****ing about it, and actually do something to stop it ( other than complain in a forum ) your going to get cheated.

I'm not "*****ing" about anything. I'm trying to raise support and awareness for no cheating in paintball, and the forums provide a means to reach many people. The goal here is to promote good sportsmanship so that the sport will become more widely accepted. Mabey all of you poor sports don't realize it, but your immoral actions are keeping big name sponsors like Sony or Nike from wanting to get involved in paintball.

And I am doing something to stop it every time it happens to me; I call people on it when I catch them cheating, and I let everyone know what kind of player they are. I also require ethical conduct from the members of my team. This is doing a lot more than just talking; it's making a choice to do the right thing. I am just one person, but I DO intend to make a difference! What are YOU doing to help the great sport of paintball?

[gang_a_change]

^^^god that is stupid, sony and nike, arent in paintball because there isnt very much money to be had in paintball, like for instance, would i buy the $100 nike cleats or the $60 dye ones, that is and easy question...nike most likly wouldent take teh risk, why when they make billions off of what they do right now.

[M-Rex]

^^^god that is stupid, sony and nike, arent in paintball ÂÂ*because there isnt very much money to be had in paintball, like for instance, would i buy the $100 nike cleats or the $60 dye ones, that is and easy question...nike most likly wouldent take teh risk, why when they make billions off of what they do right now.


Actually, I don't think that you could be more wrong, or ignorant of the big picture.

Judging by the number of mommies and daddies who buy their kids $1200 markers, and full gear set-ups, I'd say there's plenty of money to be tapped into in paintball. No one here can argue that it's not an expensive sport.

Big companies have big logos that have big reputations that elicit big reactions. Brand recognition is the name of the game. For example, take Pepsi Cola. Every one of their add campaigns focuses on how wholesome, refreshing, and cool their product is. The Pepsi logo is prominent, along with shots of folks being happy, jumping around, and generally putting forth a hip, cool, 'everyman' image that the majority of the folks in their target audience can relate to. Hopefully this results in more people buying Pepsi cola. The reputation of the logo, and the company at large, does a lot to push the product.

Now...with the level of cheating, boorish behavior, dropping the F-bomb, and general immaturity of the paintball sport, let alone the industry as a whole, why would any company want to tie it's logo and reputation to that? What would they have to gain?

Cheating in paintball is wrong. It is inexcusable, and everyone knows it. It is also at epidemic levels because players like you take the "oh well...it's part of the game" attitude. Were it within my power, every cheater caught would be banned from the sport, and his marker confiscated and destroyed while he/she watched. But...such is life. I'm only a two-feathered Indian.

Sinister_Prime is right. Stop trying to justify your wrong behavior.

M.

[gang_a_change]

....how many mommies and daddy suport there kids in this sport, adn nike wouldent really need to get involed in the sport....

[Sinister_Prime]

^^^^ What seems obvious to most is completely lost on this one!^^^

I would love to have Nike or Sony or Pepsi as a sponsor, they have massive amounts of $$$. But of course this concept is beyond comprehension for gang-of-change. (just like good sportsmanship is).

[Got_Paint]

Nike got involved in skateboarding about a year ago, I saw so many people buy those 100 dollars shoes ::)

Also why pay $60 for Dye Cleats when you can get the cleats from Copelands, or so forth. The name is what rises the price, and it's the name that will draw people!

There are suckers in everything.

[Mattaydizzle]

ok this thread is gay.

[Sinister_Prime]

ok this thread is gay.


Has anyone noticed how all the "gang-of-change" members have something negative to say on (or about) this thread?

I wonder why they support poor sportsmanship so much?

My guess is that they know they wouldn't last one second without it.

[Sinister_Prime]

i admire your effort and what you are trying to do, but maybe you should put your efforts into something more worth while. you will never win this arguement


To me doing the right thing is ALWAYS worthwhile. If I just lay down and accept it, than I am no better for it than the ones who are cheating and calling everyone gay. And this is no "argument" for winning (or losing). It's a clear-cut case of choosing to do what's right, and in that aspect I've already won.

[Mattaydizzle]

why start threads that will end up in arguements. do you enjoy to argue? Don't bag on gangachange bro. You have never seen me play so how would u know if i dont go shake the oposing teams hands before and after a game, tell them good job. Im entitled to my opinion as you are.


To me doing the right thing is ALWAYS worthwhile. If I just lay down and accept it, than I am no better for it than the ones who are cheating and calling everyone gay.

Does this mean ur going to go to every paintball forum and ever paintball field and tell people cheating isnt right and not to do it?

[M-Rex]

i don't think it's a case of it being beyond his comprehension, it's a case of him being a realist. it's not going to change. it would be nice to have big name, mainstream sponsors but as the teams and sponsors sit right now...who needs them(no sarcasm intendened). ÂÂ*there are plenty of companies that sell paintballs and paintball accessories to accomodate the teams. like i said before, i admire your effort and what you are trying to do, but maybe you should put your efforts into something more worth while. you will never win this arguement


I would attribute it more to plain old laziness than anything else. ÂÂ*It is simply easier for folks like gang_a_change to cheat, and slide through life peaking at mediocrity, than it is to actually put any effort into honest improvement. ÂÂ*

As far as winning the argument. ÂÂ*There is no arguement. ÂÂ*Sinister_Prime's tenet is inarguable. ÂÂ*Cheating is wrong and needs to be eliminated. ÂÂ*Period. ÂÂ*Done. ÂÂ*End of story. ÂÂ*

ANYONE who even attempts to justify cheating, or make excuses for it should be viewed with su****ion at every single event they play at. ÂÂ*They can not, and should not, be trusted. ÂÂ*It's as simple as that. ÂÂ*Either one has honor, or one does not. ÂÂ*There is no in-between. ÂÂ*

When you try to mix dirty water with clean water, all you end up with is more dirty water.

M.

[gang_a_change]

Hey, i am a realist, this is the first thing Cory has ever agreed with me on, so I know there is validity in my point, adn i can't do with out wiping.???? I played heads up paintball this weekend... did you even play at all this weekend ??? and so did matt....so, your whole point that we cant paly with out wiping is stupid, you should come out and play sometime.

[M-Rex]

Hey, i am a realist, this is the first thing Cory has ever agreed with me on, so I know there is validity in my point, adn i can't do with out wiping.???? I played heads up paintball this weekend... did you even play at all this weekend ÂÂ*??? and so did matt....so, your whole point that we cant paly with out wiping is stupid, you should come out and play sometime.


I neither know, nor do I care to know, who 'Cory' is. That is irrelevent. I did play this last weekend, and that too is irrelevent. You have done nothing to add to the post.

All you have to do is not cheat. Next, insist that all your friends not cheat. Never underestimate the power of peer pressure with folks your age. (If you are older than the teen years, I apologize. No offense was intended by that comment.)

Don't even try to justify cheating. You'll lose every time. You've already tried to make excuses for cheating by playing the 'everyone does it' argument. Therefore, your actions on the playing field are already suspect...at least in my opinion.

[gang_a_change]

this is funny, i don't strive for excellence? Whenever we lose a game I am the most upset that we didn't win. Where do you play? Does your Soul Asassins team want to scrim us lazy people? PM me if you want to set up a date.

[Mattaydizzle]

You are arguing right now. Brb, lemmie go post "CHEATING IS WRONG" in ever paintball forum their is and see if i dont get any arguments or if they thread wont get deleted after a few posts. You are going to have cheating in everysport one way or another. Omg have we forgot about ramping timmy's? Is that cheating to a guy with a spider or tippman? what about all the clothes we all wear? is that fair to the guys with a t-shirt and jeans. Mabye to them anyone with a fast gun and nice gear is a cheater. You can't stop it so don't try. If ur gonna try to stop it in paintball then why not go try to stop it everywhere in everysport! i'll help! Nobody likes whiners... so if ur just gonna whine out on the field that one guy is cheating then get off. Alot of people's minds say " Play to win."

...are u gonna go try to sue "evil" for shirts that say "cheaters live longer?"

[Got_Paint]

Wether who is better is irrelevant to the fact that cheating is wrong.


There will always be cheating, but you can make the number of people who do it drop by taking a stand.

[M-Rex]

this is funny, i don't strive for excellence? ÂÂ*Whenever we lose a game I am the most upset that we didn't win. ÂÂ*Where do you play? ÂÂ*Does your Soul Asassins team want to scrim us lazy people? ÂÂ*PM me if you want to set up a date.


Are you upset because you didn't play as well as you expected, or are you upset because you didn't cheat as well as expected? That is the question. Besides, that really doesn't mean anything, as I am upset when my team loses as well. That's a normal reaction.

No, we are not interested in 'scrim-ing' with you. Win, lose, or draw, it would prove nothing, lend nothing to the debate at hand, and I'd still be right. I do appreciate the offer, however.

[Mattaydizzle]

You are arguing right now. Brb, lemmie go post "CHEATING IS WRONG" in ever paintball forum their is and see if i dont get any arguments or if they thread wont get deleted after a few posts. You are going to have cheating in everysport one way or another. Omg have we forgot about ramping timmy's? Is that cheating to a guy with a spider or tippman? what about all the clothes we all wear? is that fair to the guys with a t-shirt and jeans. Mabye to them anyone with a fast gun and nice gear is a cheater. You can't stop it so don't try. If ur gonna try to stop it in paintball then why not go try to stop it everywhere in everysport! i'll help! Nobody likes whiners... so if ur just gonna whine out on the field that one guy is cheating then get off. Alot of people's minds say " Play to win."

...are u gonna go try to sue "evil" for shirts that say "cheaters live longer?"

[Sinister_Prime]

why start threads that will end up in arguements. do you enjoy to argue?

This is a thread about sportsmanship in paintball. I'm not the one initiating any arguments, but I do intend to make my point very clear. You can interpret that any way you'd like.



Don't bag on gangachange bro. You have never seen me play so how would u know if i dont go shake the oposing teams hands before and after a game, tell them good job. Im entitled to my opinion as you are.

I have seen you play, and I do know your tactics. I've scrimmaged against you (as adrenaline) at Valley Thunder last year, and when my teammates and myself offered handshakes at the end of the round you turned your back and walked off. The only ones that were cool about it were Fidel and his brother. I must admit though, when you bonus balled that kid with the foul mouth at the Valley Thunder All-girls day I laughed my ass off! ;D



Does this mean ur going to go to every paintball forum and ever paintball field and tell people cheating isnt right and not to do it?


That is actually a great idea. Thanks!

[norcal_tom]

And this isn't limited to just players. Spectators that see people wiping should make it known to all when it happens too. Just this past weekend at a Valley Thunder "Thunder Cup" tourney I heard SEVERAL spectators say they saw a guy pull a flag and blatantly use it to wipe a hit off of his marker, right in front of a referee. But nothing was said, and the player got away with it and his team won the round (unfairly). I did not see it personally or I WOULD have said something. And I dont really care if people hate me for it, or talk a lot of smack about me, or threaten to kick my ass. I don't like them for playing dishonestly so the feeling is mutual. Fact of the matter is they just don't like being called on their crappy behavior, and I call it every time I see it. Thats the bottom line, I have zero tolerance for B.S. like that.

..


I just decided to read through this and saw this little quip. I reffed that tourney. More than likly my brother or myself is the ref you are talking about. I also remembver the incident you are refering to. The guy was not hit until he went into the snake. He was then hit on his pack and I pulled him.

I absolutly cannot STAND people that ref from the sidelines. Especially on the other side of the fuggin field!!! It is so easy to win the world series or superbowl from you recliner. If that "spectator" could do a better job, why isn't his weak ass out there doing it??? Word of advice, don't do this, you look like a jackass. Get off you ass and get there and help.

What's really funny is the person *****ing about it was supposed to be the loosing teams coach. Sorry guys,
you were not cheated.

Just because you shoot a case at me, doesn't mean you hit me. I've been on the receiving end of this before, " I know I hit you" No you didn't bro... Your just not as good as you think you are.

Not everyone cheats. Some people just practice....ALOT...

[Mattaydizzle]

SinsterGeek are you serious? Im probably the only on Adrenaline or Gang-A-Change that would never cuss on the field and i can get anyone to back me up on this. Never has cussed. I will and have always shook hands. Mabye i didn't see ur teamate or friend w/e. Im a great sport on the field. Trust me bro, u must have not seen me play because the guy ur describing is not me.

[toolfan]

mattaydizzle is a stand up player on the field..and as for u thinking gang a change cheats just because we r saying that u wont do anything about stopping it doesnt mean "we cheat"
the last tourny we played we were very friendly to all the teams..shook all their hands and wished them good luck..and after the game we said good luck..u can not judge us by what u interpret over the internet..and as for u not wanting to scrim us..fine dont practice..dont get any better at paintball..your choice..we are open to scrim any team who wants to..we are not afraid to have our butts handed to us..as long as we learn something from it..just close this thread..